Experimentation and Awareness: Bringing Invisalign to General Dental Practices


Podcast Summary

In this podcast episode, Dr. Ingrid Murra, a pioneering dentist and founder of Two Front, shares her journey and insights into offering Invisalign treatment in general dental practices (GPs). The conversation delves into the challenges, opportunities, and the importance of providing quality care and a positive patient experience. 

Dr. Murra starts by reflecting on her upbringing as a first-generation immigrant and how witnessing her parents’ hard work and determination shaped her perspective on the value of hard work. This upbringing instilled in her a sense of purpose and the belief that working hard for a good cause can change lives. 

The discussion then shifts to the best way for GPs to offer Invisalign. Dr. Murra emphasizes the incredible opportunity GPs have to change lives by boosting patients’ confidence and allowing them to operate from a place of love instead of fear. However, she cautions that the process is not as easy as it may seem. Digital teeth don’t move the same way real teeth do, and aligner companies’ claims can be misleading. Dr. Murra introduces Two Front, a virtual ortho platform she has developed to empower GPs to offer orthodontic treatments like Invisalign to every patient. This platform eliminates the need for case selection or sales and allows GPs to focus on education and delivering aligners while ensuring their patients receive high-quality care through collaboration with virtual orthodontic practices. 

The conversation continues with a discussion on the operational status of Two Front and the focus on providing the highest quality clinical care and the best patient experience. Dr. Murra mentions that the company is fully operational and licensed in 14 states, with practices already established. She highlights the two primary areas of focus: clinical care and patient experience. Two Front strives to optimize both aspects, ensuring accurate treatment planning, meticulous touchpoints, and a high level of engagement to address patient concerns and minimize buyer’s remorse. 

The conversation further explores the significance of straight teeth and a healthy bite for individuals. Dr. Murra expresses her belief that everyone can benefit from orthodontic treatment, citing statistics on the social and career impact of a nice smile and the potential long-term cost savings in dental procedures. The aim is to help patients maintain straight teeth and a healthy bite for a lifetime, considering the impact of grinding and bite issues on dental health. 

Dr. Murra then explains the difference between mail-order aligners and B2B clear aligners. She highlights the three-step process involved in clear aligner treatment and compares it to the self-made impressions and treatment planning software used by mail-order aligner companies. The absence of an orthodontist in the treatment planning process and the lower quality of materials used in mail-order aligners are highlighted as key differences. 

Towards the end of the episode, Dr. Murra provides listeners with information on how to learn more and get involved with Two Front. Interested individuals can reach out to her via email to explore opportunities for collaboration or join the waitlist. 

The podcast concludes with host Shawn Zajas commending Dr. Murra’s accomplishments and her ability to pioneer a new approach in dentistry. He acknowledges the challenges and the need to educate the market and expresses admiration for her success. In closing, he asks Dr. Murra what she would say to herself eight years ago when she embarked on this journey. Dr. Murra responds with excitement, acknowledging the unique nature of her journey and expressing her conviction that it will be the most amazing and rewarding thing she has ever done. 

Overall, this podcast episode with Dr. Murra sheds light on the journey of offering Invisalign in general dental practices, the importance of quality care and patient experience, and the innovative solutions provided by Two Front. Dr. Murra’s story serves as an inspiration to all dental professionals looking to make a positive impact in their patients’ lives. 

Contact Dr. Ingrid Murra
Email Ingrid@mytwofriends.com
IG: @mytwofront
IG: @dr.ingie


Podcast Transcript

Dr. Ingrid Murra 00:00 

And as long as you have that experimentation mindset of like, I’m doing this not because I know it’s gonna work, it’s because I’m going to see if it’s going to solve my problem. And if it doesn’t, I’m gonna try something new. 


Shawn Zajas  00:10 

The future of dentistry belongs to the innovators. Welcome to innovation in dentistry. I’m your host, Shawn Zajas. And I believe that the future of dentistry is going to be unbelievably great over the next decade in two decades. But the question isn’t that the question is, are you going to be part of what makes dentistry great? So I’m incredibly thankful that I have the opportunity today to interview Dr. Ingrid Mira. And I’m going to set the stage in a little bit. But first, let me just say, Doctor, thank you so much for joining me today on this podcast. 


Dr. Ingra Murra 00:55 

Thank you for having me. I’m honored. 


Shawn Zajas  00:58 

So I just met you at the CEO. And pretty much what happened was, we’re sitting at a table. I don’t know if it was lunch or breakfast. But I just heard you sharing with some other doctors about what it is that you’re doing. And there was definitely a lot of passion, a lot of conviction. And I’m thinking, okay, whoever this person is, she’s absolutely crushing it. Like everyone was just like, leaning in, hanging on every word that you were saying. And at one point, you dropped something that just had me completely hooked. So we’ll probably get to that. But actually, I need you to say, what is it that you’re doing right now? What what is this amazing passion project that is way more than a passion project? Now you’re actually bringing it to market? What is to front? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 01:46 

Yeah, I am dying to know what you heard, like what that hope was? 


Shawn Zajas  01:51 

Well, I’ll, I’ll let you know. 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 01:55 

We so we’re in North a virtual orthodontic practice for dental offices. So you know, because of these mail order aligner companies, one in two people in the world now want to straighten their teeth. But I learned that residency that to get high quality care, you need an orthodontist, there’s no way around it, there’s no AI to replace us. Invisalign is just tool. And if it’s not done by an orthodontist, you’re not getting high quality care. Not only that, you can not get results, and you can mess up your bite. But the problem is that 60% of us counties don’t have an orthodontist. And orthotics are really expensive. They’re the number one most in depth professional in the country. So we’ve basically built a private practice platform for orthodontist to run virtual practices, and connect with the dental offices, so that dentists can offer their patients full service orthodontics with that kind of convenient, consumerized experience that patients are looking for nowadays. 


Shawn Zajas  02:52 

That is amazing. Like that. There’s such a need for that. It’s transformative. It’s disruptive. And that’s what I highlight, I highlight people that are pioneering positive disruption. So way to go, how long have you been working on this? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 03:08 

It depends on you know, when I like kind of demarcate that start date, but I knew I had to do something. And I started like thinking about this and losing sleep every night in 2015. So you know, the journey truly began eight years ago, where I realized I wasn’t going to be a practicing orthodontist. At that point is when you know, I was in residency for three years, I started taking classes at the Harvard Business School. Turns out that didn’t teach me much about running a business. And then I started fundraising, and successfully fundraise by the end of 2019. So that’s maybe the original date maybe like four years ago, so depending on kind of how you think about it. 


Shawn Zajas  03:53 

But the idea when it started nagging you was back in 2015. So that was eight years ago. Yeah. Okay, so that is what actually hooked me. At the table, you said, you’ve been working on this for eight years, and I was just like, any person that has the resilience and the diligence to continue to believe in something to birth, something that takes that much time I’m sure there was obstacles, I’m sure there’s been lows, and yet you continue to stick with it. That is fascinating. Oftentimes, if people don’t get some sort of open door, or some like gratification from their idea, within X amount of months, six months, three months, not validated. Like people give up because they get disillusioned because it is ridiculously hard. And yet here you are. And you’ve already raised some money, haven’t you? Yeah, like a lot of money. 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 04:57 

Yeah, we raised a couple rounds. Um, And we raised the pre seed round the seed round, and now we’re actively raising a seed extension. 


Shawn Zajas  05:06 

Okay, so before we get into more of the particulars that’s backup. When did you realize like, I don’t know, did you ever realize, Oh, I’m going to be more than just an orthodontist. Like this, this vertical this profession isn’t? I don’t know, it’s not enough for me like, like, do you see yourself as a visionary entrepreneur? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 05:29 

You know, it wasn’t that the profession wasn’t enough for me. I love orthodontics, I decided to become an orthodontist. When I was eight, I had my own life transforming experience, it changed my life. It gave me the confidence to really like be a newfound person where I was, I was just I was an optimized human being because of the confidence that my smile gave me. And so it wasn’t, that’s kind of what I wanted to do for the world. I said, Okay, if I average orthodontists use 288 new patients a year, if I can transform about 300 lives a year, that feels like a really good profession. But so it wasn’t at all to the profession wasn’t good enough. For me, it was in 2015, when I realized that so many more people need this than 300 people a year at times, you know, the number of orthodontist in the country 12,000 orthodontist in the country. And at the same time, Orthodontist are extremely expensive, because they’re so in debt, and patients now want to go to their dentist for orthodontics. So meanwhile, I was in my second year of residency, and I have all my GP, all my dental friends texting me saying like Ingrid, why isn’t my Invisalign working. And I basically had just at that point, learned ortho and I was like, because it’s not this easy. It’s not what Invisalign says it is, you can’t just submit a case and then suddenly, your patient’s teeth are going to be strained. This is hard, there’s no AI to replace us. And so it was really like I couldn’t exist in this world where basically, no one’s winning orthodontist aren’t winning, then just start winning. And of course, patients aren’t winning, because they’re not getting high quality care. So it was really kind of like a commitment to the cause of like helping patients get what they’re looking for. And then also, helping providers like have a light at the end of the tunnel, you know, you work so hard, you go into debt. And it just doesn’t make sense to me that you graduate, you’re in all this debt, and you have no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow that’s like, I’m no independent, I can now have, you know, what I was looking for. So it’s really kind of this bilateral mission of helping providers get what they’re looking for, and helping patients get the confidence they’re looking for. 


Shawn Zajas  07:45 

So our listeners, like the main thing I’m always saying to them is that dentistry is going to be great, pretty much with or without them. But I encourage them to be part of what makes dentistry great. Like, you didn’t have to step up when you saw something and say, You know what, like, why not me? Like, why can I actually provide value? Why can’t I provide a solution to a problem I’m seeing, and that took sacrifice that took, like discipline that took, like, probably a journey that was challenging. Why? Why did you? I don’t know, like, what what mindset did you have that was like, why not me? Like what was it that simple? Or was there more to it? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 08:28 

Um, honestly, I think it’s like, naivety, is that the word? Like, I just had no idea what it was going to take and what sacrifice I just knew, like, I can’t live in this world. I can’t operate as an orthodontist, knowing that so many people are getting screwed. And I think that like naivete, like just kind of helped me was like, oh, we’ll all learn how to build a financial model. I’ll learn how to hire, I’ll learn how to do all these things. And then, you know, I think the biggest thing is just like I don’t let feeling full like a fool get me down. Because every single day you’re doing that, like you. I don’t know how to build this, and then I do it and I look like a fool. But then I’ve learned how to do it. So I think that’s kind of the biggest thing that I’ve learned is just like, everyday, you don’t know things and if you’re open minded to learning, and just not looking like an idiot or not being okay with looking like an idiot, then you’re gonna be okay. 


Shawn Zajas  09:26 

Yeah, but see that that is so profound to arrive at a place like that, because we’re conditioned to not stand out in a way of like, we don’t want to be humiliated. I don’t want to be like, revealed as as a fraud or as someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing. But yet almost having that like beginner’s brain and being like, hey, the road to excellence, or fulfillment on any path requires that I had to learn things I don’t know. And that that means there’s an acknowledgment of, I actually don’t know what to do right now and I’m going to try my best and I’m going to fail, but That’s what I always tell people like fail forward. And like, the faster you do that, the, the more you actually learn, because learning doesn’t take place in the boardroom, or maybe even in the school rooms, right as you found out, like they, they might teach you, you know how to elevate the corporation. And it’s all very, very corporate, I was even just watching a whole thing on innovation the other day about an accelerator or an incubator. And it’s still about, like these massive corporations and how they can foster innovation in their massive company. It’s not at all about entrepreneurial or small business, where we have, we have agility, we have speed, we have autonomy. And at the same exact time, we can’t hide behind anything if we fall on our faces, right? You know, like that whole, hey, you know, like, Thank God, you. You didn’t mind looking foolish here in there. Because what you’ve done and what you’re doing and what you’ve created, had to get created. Like dogs. This is amazing. I’m sure you have the sense of like pride of like, I’ve really done it now. What was a one or two of the shocking things that may be because you were, again, slightly naive to how crazy it might be that you’re like, Oh, my God, I did not expect that. 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 11:19 

Oh, my God. I could I mean, they’re honestly like, they’re every day, like, every day, there’s something new. What are two things? I mean? What are some that are going to be relevant? Just one thing that comes to mind too, like raising a priced round. So I’ve raised two rounds. So far funding, the first one was on what’s called the SAFE, simple agreement for future equity. That was fairly easy. I was able to like Google that and like figure out like, Okay, you sent investors stock, you get your wire instructions. One of the craziest things was raising a price round, I don’t have a co founder, so I kind of had to figure out everything on my own. So suddenly, I’m seeing myself, you know, I’m like, on this email chains with like, you know, craft ventures, multi billion dollar fund, and, you know, some of these top law firms, they’re like, Okay, you know, first of all, it’s like a three to six month diligence process. And they’re like, my lawyers are walking me through these diligence points, just like legalese. legalese, legalese. And just like, can you please translate? Please explain this to me, like a five year old, that was one of the crazy. And it wasn’t just like five points. It was like, hundreds of points, where I’m like, what does this mean? Please translate like, it was it was crazy. 


Shawn Zajas  12:43 

by the fact that you’ve gone through this. I feel like you could write a book, just on this experience so far. Or you could create a course and say, hey, look, doctors, if there’s something that you’re wanting to pioneer. I’ve made a lot of mistakes. And maybe you didn’t make a lot of mistakes, but, but just like, I don’t mean mistakes, and like the oh, I went to too long down that road, but maybe even just like it took me a few months to distill this. But now if I tell you that shaves a few months off of your journey, you know, because you really have been trailblazing what was a mindset that you had to shed over the last eight years in order to get to where you’re at today. 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 13:28 

It’s honestly exactly what you’re saying. I read this quote by Thomas Edison once that was it said I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that this isn’t going to work. That’s literally my mindset. Every single day is like nothing is a failure. There is no such thing as failure, everything was a journey. There’s no playbook, there’s no playbook to inventing something new. So each and every day, you’re just trying and trying and trying and trying. And as long as you have that experimentation mindset of like, I’m doing this not because I know it’s going to work. It’s because I’m going to see if it’s going to solve my problem. And if it doesn’t, I’m gonna try something new, then that’s, that’s how I just keep going. Like there’s no trying and failing. There’s just experiments. 


Shawn Zajas  14:13 

I love that again, it’s the whole, like, let’s put something out into the market and then get some feedback and then iterate. You know, we’re agile, we can change. Oh, that didn’t work that well. That’s not how you partner with someone. Okay, let’s try something else, you know, oh, that you know, and I love that. And I think a lot of dental professionals. They have like the the logic or the intelligent intelligence to get the good feedback, but maybe they don’t have the permission. Almost like they don’t give themselves enough permission to just submit to that process. Like it could take a long time. Learning is messy sometimes. I I’m just like, you’re just such an inspiration because you’re actually doing it like so why didn’t you give up four years ago? Why didn’t you give up five years ago? Like, how, why? Why are you here after eight years still going at this? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 15:13 

Because the problem is so pervasive. The problem is, I just can’t, I mean, I am not even kidding, I, I dream about this, I wake up thinking about this, I go to sleep thinking about this, like, I have so many dentist friends, I have so many orthodontist, friends, I have so many non dental friends who want confidence. And knowing I just came back from an onboarding with our practices, and we were helping one of the dentists assistants get set up with Invisalign. And she was just telling you her story about how she has been waiting for so long. She can’t afford it, she doesn’t know who to go to. And like, it’s that micro like, that brings me so much joy to know that we’re going to get her what she’s looking for. And we’re empowering the dentist at that practice to offer that patient that care that’s going to change her life. And so it’s just so rewarding what we can do. And so I mean, listen, you mentioned like, not having made any mistakes. Every day, I make mistakes, like everyday is literally chewing on glass, there’s no other way to put it. Like, you have to be so masochistic. And so, just committed to solving a problem to want to do this, because it is really, really hard. But if you didn’t go to sleep at night, knowing that what you’re doing can solve so can change so many people’s lives. That’s what keeps me going. 


Shawn Zajas  16:39 

I’m still just trying to put the pieces together because it’s like, really, you you were on this path. You educated yourself, you know, became an orthodontist. And that is enough, like that’s more than enough that changing 300 patients lives a year is amazing. But then all of a sudden, you see something you can’t unsee it’s like, oh, there’s a problem. There’s a really big problem, and it’s affecting everybody. But you still bet on yourself. Like I’m still trying to get that like, what was their self doubt there? Because there’s never a guarantee, right? That this is gonna work. No one was able to say, you know, Dr. Mira, you know, this is gonna work. Like we know, it’s gonna work, like hands down. It’ll take 11 years, you’re gonna raise this fund and the next thing you know, you can sell it for 500 million. Like, no, no one can tell you. This is going to work and yet you still decided to step out into the unknown, it almost seems I want to be like, what’s wrong with you? Like, what was that like? grappling with the unknown? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 17:45 

I grappled with it every day. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s so hard. Like, especially in today’s market of like, it being very hard. I mean, listen, like, especially being like a female founder, like, the amount of funding going to women of color is ridiculous. I was like the 48th, a woman that has gotten over a million dollars of funding ever in the United States. That’s so depressing. I just, I think of myself, like a cockroach, I literally will do whatever it takes to solve the problem. And all I’m not smart. I like I had to work very hard to get to where I am, I probably had to work twice as hard as everyone else, if not more. I just worked very, very hard until I figured things out. And I think I have the confidence myself to know that even if it takes me 10s Even if this thing takes me 30 years, like we will change people’s lives, we will create infrastructure in this world to change the way people live. And even if it takes a long time, then I’m going to make it happen no matter what. 


Shawn Zajas  18:50 

That’s exactly like the conviction I heard when you were talking to those doctors. I was like I don’t know who this girl is. But she believes 100% In what she’s doing. And that came through with everything you were saying like where does this resilience come from though that the whole like I don’t wanna say dog it but like that that like you can’t stop me I almost like the term I guess I do want to use even though a visa for someone is like juggernaut like no matter what I’m just gonna keep on going like is this is this who you were always just as a child like your parents like wow, you know, Ingrid, you are resilient? You know, is this or did you have to just develop that? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 19:35 

I honestly don’t know. Um, I think one thing that comes to mind is like, so I’m a first generation immigrant and I had to see my parents work hard. And they had to, you know, they had me young, they had to learn English while they were putting each other through med school. You know, my dad was putting my mom through med school by working in a car place, whatever those cars places are called. My mom was working at a grocery store to put my dad through med school. So they’re really very much the American dream, like, and I was born through all that. And I just thought how hard it was like money didn’t come easy. And you had to work hard. And so I think like I saw that since I was two years old. And I think that’s one thing that probably I just knew that like working hard was like part of life. And if you’re doing it for a good cause, and I think it just, it just gives me a lot of purpose to know that I have the ability to change lives. 


Shawn Zajas  20:36 

Amen, amen. Okay, let’s get into some of the nitty gritty. So you’re always ready for this kind of stuff. So what is the best way for a GP? To offer Invisalign? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 20:50 

Oh, so, first of all, like I think as a GP, you have such an incredible opportunity. Like you truly have such an incredible opportunity, like each and every person whose life you change through their confidence is someone who can change the world, you know, and I think giving someone the confidence to let their light shine, and operate from a place of like love instead of fear is something that a dentist has the ability to do. Now, these companies that offer you the ability to straighten their teeth make it seem easier than it is, it’s not that easy. I learned this two years into my residency. And the easiest way to put it is that digital teeth don’t move the same way that real teeth move. Even if you know, you get back this ClinCheck that says, oh, yeah, 20 aligners, you know, blah, blah, blah, let’s press accept 3d print and your teeth are going to come out exactly this way. It doesn’t work that way. teeth have masses, every T every child has a digital mass, or a real life mass that is affected by the bone structure that they’re in. They’re affected by the bite, how are you going to teach that patients are binding on both sides? How are you going to align the bite to make sure that the teeth aren’t contacting? Long story short, it’s not as easy as these clear aligner companies make it seem. So what we’ve done is basically build a way for GPs to offer ortho to every single patient through a virtual ortho platform. So yes, I’m biased, I think every GP should be offering Invisalign through to front. It’s a way for GPs to not have to case select not have to sell a case, they can just educate, do what they do best. Why is this valuable to you? After you after you sign patients up, you can literally just say, Great, I’m going to sign you up there for an ortho assessment with my orthodontist, my treatment coordinator is going to reach out to you, you’ll be in great hands, we offer great payment plans. And if you decide to move forward with treatment, I’ll see you here to get started. It’s a way for GPs to focus on education, delivering the aligners and keep everyone in house and at the same time make a lot of money. You know, the average Invisalign provider in the world over the past 23 years, has treated one patient per month on average. And you’re seeing 150 to 200 patients a month, why there’s a lot of reasons. GPs are clinically generally competent to treat 10 to 30% of cases, they really don’t like selling Obviously, none of us like selling and so they’re not kind of pushing patients, where we have a way to kind of drive urgency through education, where patients are never pushed or just educated. And that’s how you help them make a decision. Pricing is very, very difficult. And then the average Invisalign case take six hours, which is pretty wild, considering how little profit we’re making. So through two front, we really make sure that GPs are spending maximum one hour per Invisalign case, we take care of all the virtual visits so that GPS can just focus on educating delivering the aligners and know that their patients are getting the highest quality care by working with a virtual orthodontic practice. 


Shawn Zajas  24:12 

Yeah, that that’s amazing, like, so is this fully operational now? And the money is just simply to scale it. 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 24:21 

No, you know, we’re fully operational. We’re licensed in 14 states, we got practices, you know, I was just one of our practices in LA, we just want to put into practice two hours ago in Oklahoma with this awesome guy who we’re really excited to work with. But it’s, you know, we’re always there’s two things we’re really focusing on. How do we provide the highest quality clinical care and how do we provide that best patient experience? Those are the biggest focuses the clinical care is there, you know, you’re offering the highest quality clinical care by working with a top diamonds, Invisalign orthodontist and working with the best product Invisalign, and we make sure we work with GPS who have had these four are stars on Google. So they’re, you know, we know that they’re treating their patients while their patients are happy. Patient Experience is something we’re always always working on. So like every single day, we’re optimizing it just to kind of as an example, between the time that a patient pays and the time that the dentist actually gives the patients are aligners and places attachments is IPR, we have 27 touch points with that patient, where we’re reviewing insurance with them reviewing their ClinCheck sending them messages, every time their clinic is ready. Every time they’re, you know, when their clinic when their aligners are shipped, you know, appointment reminders. So there’s really, it’s a really, really high touch. Because that period between the patient paying five to $6,000, and getting their aligners is when patients generally get buyer’s remorse. And so we really make sure to take that patient experience really seriously and kind of handhold them to make sure that they’re really satisfied and happy with, you know, having paid all that money to straighten your teeth. 


Shawn Zajas  26:00 

Well, I know if I was a GP, and I’m allowing my patient to get referred, you know, to someone else, or to hand off a portion of some treatment to someone else. Yeah, I want to make sure that that patient is getting the best care possible, or else yeah, it’s a really bad reflection on on me and who I choose to trust. You know, what other professionals I trust. So the fact that you guys go through so many touch points with such care, and you’re so meticulous about that, I think that’s, that’s amazing. So tell me what, like what percentage of patients need straight teeth. 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 26:40 

I’m biased, I think everyone can benefit. You know, they say that 99.7% of people say that, and nice smiles and important social asset. 75% of people say that having an unattractive smile can hurt your career success. You know, if you don’t have straight teeth and a healthy bite, the average patient is spending $40,000 over their lifetime, on dental procedures that can be prevented. You know, they’re we’re all grinding, you know, we’re all stressed. We’re all we’re living in the age of iPhones. We’re like, you know, the second you wake up, you’re getting anxious, looking at your phones, everyone’s grinding. And when you’re grinding, and you don’t have that straight bite, what’s happening is you’re creating where facettes you’re creating infractions. You’re creating perio disease, and just sort of crowding your space increase period, which is causing like, you know, SRP is over your lifetime? And if and if not more, so I think absolutely, everyone should get orthodontics and like maintain that straight teeth and a healthy bite. We’re living well into our 80s 90s. So you know, we’re trying to help our patients keep our teeth forever. So yeah, long story short, I think everyone should get it. 


Shawn Zajas  27:51 

I agree. So tell me the difference, though, between, like mail order, and the b2b clear aligners. 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 28:01 

Okay, so clear aligners. It’s a three step process to get clear aligners into the hands of a patient. So you’ve got to take an impression of the teeth, which is that I throw scanner impression, and you got to move those teeth using software to implanting software. And then you manufacture those aligners to get them 3d printed according to the treatment plan. And step two, so mailorder liners, typically they’re using self made impressions, which means that first of all, they’re not going to be as accurate, the aligners won’t fit as accurately as you know, getting digital impressions, which means that you’re gonna get less accurate treatment. That’s step one. Step two is they have their own, you know, treatment planning software there, it’s not Invisalign, I tell all my dentist, friends and our dental partners. And if you’re working with an orthodontist, who is using Invisalign software, you can treat 100 of bright percent of braces cases with Invisalign, because Invisalign software is so advanced, that orthodontist can do all sorts of movements, like digitalize molars for like class two and class three cases. You know, using elastics, you can do, you can use clear aligners for extraction cases for surgery cases, there’s no case that we can’t do without that with braces, you know, besides potentially like an impacted canine, for example. And so for clear for these mailorder liner companies, they’re using their own version of Invisalign, treatment planning software, which is significantly worse. And the people who are basically deciding your treatment plan are the equivalent of the technicians in Costa Rica for Invisalign, who are helping doctors actually free these treatment plans. So they are the ones deciding on the treatment plan. And then of course, our manufacturing facility isn’t as good so the actual liners themselves a quality is worse. But the most important thing truly is that there’s no orthodontist assigning the treatment plan. and the quality of each step is worse. And then of course, you know, clear aligners themselves, they’re only one part of the equation, you know, the other part of the equation to move teeth or attachments and IPR, just like braces, you know, everyone has brackets and then wires, you can’t straighten your teeth with just braces, or sorry, just rackets or just wires you need to both tooth movement is biomechanics. And that requires the interaction between two different materials. And so you know, teeth are slippery, like imagine plastic trying to pull your teeth down, it’s not possible without an attachment. So of course, with mail order aligner companies, you’re not going to get those attachments. So in general, you’re just going to be tipping the teeth, which means that as soon as you finish your treatment, they’re gonna go right back to where that route is. 


Shawn Zajas  30:48 

That was, that was a lot and incredibly in depth and very, very informative. So if a listener right now is like, okay, so how do I how do I learn more? How do I like I want what you have a doctor, because it is so helpful. Where would you like them to go? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 31:07 

Oh, they could just email me, you know, I would see if they’re in one of our 14 states, and we would just get them on boarded. Or add them to our waitlist. And my emails Ingrid at my two friends.com. 


Shawn Zajas  31:19 

Now the 14 states is that just is that a process to eventually go nationwide? Or did you figure out those are the best they Okay, okay, so there is some sort of process that does take time before you can be what? legal in all 50? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 31:37 

Yeah, you know, it’s just a cost thing. Like we’re still a small company. So as soon as five dental practices that are signed on in the state, we onboard that state. 


Shawn Zajas  31:48 

Okay, no, that totally makes sense. Because you got to set up the whole infrastructure and everything. Okay, so this is crazy, because there’s like, all the clinical stuff that you’re sharing. And at the same time, I’m still like, freaking out about how you have done such a great job. Because I’m not a clinical guy. I’m just in the business side of things. And I know how difficult it is to try to pioneer something, something different to get to educate the marketplace about it, to get traction with an idea. And yet you’ve you’ve done it. So I just want to like honor you for that. So here’s my question. In closing. Dr. What would you say? If you’re walking down the street, and you see Dr. Ingrid Mira, of eight years ago, right, when you embarked on this, and you have one sentiment that you can communicate to her? What do you say to her? 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 32:45 

Wow, what a question. Um, you are about to embark on the journey of a lifetime. And it’s not going to match anything that you’ve done before this, you know, to your point, like clinicals, very playbook, like, you know, study this, make the a study this make the A, this is your own journey, and you’re gonna have to invent every single step of the way. And it’s going to be the most amazing thing, and the most rewarding thing you’ve ever done in your life. So congratulations. 


Shawn Zajas  33:18 

Okay, so if that wasn’t the most inspiring thing that listeners need to hear? I mean, here you are, and you’ve talked about the struggle, you’ve talked about the eating glass, and yet the cherry on the top is I wouldn’t have had it any other way. Like you’re about to do the most rewarding thing. So that’s what we’re, we’re saying we’re encouraging everyone that sees a problem that thinks that they can contribute like be part of what makes dentistry Great. Yeah, and Dr. Ingram, your that is exactly what you have been doing. And I honor your commitment. I honor the actual change you’re making. I it’s been so easy to honor you as an innovator as a change maker. So no, seriously, thank you so much for letting me interview you today. 


Dr. Ingrid Murra 34:02 

You’re so kind. Thank you. And we haven’t done it. We’re doing it every single day. We’re not there yet. It’s a daily journey. So thank you. 


Shawn Zajas  34:11 

Thank you, Doctor. Thanks for listening, and be sure to follow so you never miss an episode. To learn more about what’s going on in dentistry. Check out innovation in dentistry.com 

More Podcasts