Leading with Love: Anne Duffy’s Journey of Empowering Women in Dentistry

Anne Duffy 0:00

You know, it’s just, it’s really the journey. So I think you have to enjoy the journey and, you know, and be positive about, you know, and have, and have a mission there. Right. I mean, you have, it has to be bigger than, to me, it has to be bigger than money.

Shawn Zajas 0:12

The future of dentistry belongs to the innovators. Welcome to Innovation in Dentistry. I’m your host, Shawn Zajas. And I believe that the future of dentistry is going to be unbelievably great over the next decade and two decades. But the question isn’t that. The question is, are you going to be part of what makes dentistry great?

Shawn Zajas 0:42

Okay. So today I could not be more excited to have the honor and privilege to be with Anne Duffy. You are famous in the world of dentistry, Anne. And before I set you up, let me just say thank you so much for letting me interview you today.

Anne Duffy 0:57

Hey, it’s my pleasure. I’m excited. I haven’t seen you for a while in person, so this is going to be a fun conversation.

Shawn Zajas 1:05

So Anne, innovation in dentistry, I mean, that can mean so many different things, right? There’s like innovations that happen when it comes to technology. There’s innovations that happen when it comes to clinical and both of those impact dentistry. But before any of that happens, there’s some person that has some mindset or belief set that says, why not me? Like, why can’t I step up and pioneer positive change? And that’s absolutely what I’m obsessed with because I believe the next decade of dentistry is going to be amazing. But my question isn’t, is it going to be great? The question is, are our listeners going to be part of what make it great? Or are they just going to stay on the sideline watching people like you? Even with what you do with Dental Entrepreneur Woman, it’s like you don’t know the women you could meet that don’t show up at your event. You don’t know the synergy that could happen. You don’t know the breakthrough that could happen. Because let’s just be honest, some of the women are still on the sideline wondering if it’s their time, wondering if they’re ready. And that’s why I love sharing stories from people like you that just went for it. And that’s what I want to hear about. So tell me, Anne, how did you even get into dentistry?

Anne Duffy 2:21

Oh, gosh. Well, like a lot of women in my age group, I went to the dentist every six months when I was a kid. And I was in high school. I wanted to go to Ohio State. That was my number one. I wanted to attend Ohio State. And I had to have a good reason. I was one of five kids. And I went to the dentist. I’ll never forget it that day. And the dental hygienist, the dentist came in and said, I think you should be a dental hygienist. You’d be a really good dental hygienist. And I was like, oh, well, how about it? I know Ohio State has a program. So mom and dad, that’s what I wanted to do. And I went to Ohio State and I practiced, you know, I graduated dental hygiene. It was not that I love teeth and I had a major, you know, problem and all of that. It was just, it looked like a fun occupation at the time. And yeah, I just went for it.

Shawn Zajas 3:10

Okay. So when, like, when is this, like, were you a practicing hygienist? I mean, cause I don’t think you’re practicing now, right? Am I, am I correct?

Anne Duffy 3:17

Oh no. I mean, this was like, I was, I’m going to say I was 17 cause I went to college and my birthday was, you know, I was 17 when I started college. And so I was about 17 or probably, yeah, 17. And, um, no, I, and it was really funny, Shawn, because I remember coming home after my first year at Ohio State. So you go in, you take all your prerequisites. Right. And so I just remember coming home and saying, I, this is just not for me. I don’t think I want to do dental hygiene because I want to do social work. I want to do something that’s going to really matter and in people’s lives. And it just felt like cleaning teeth and I, you know, just, and I, and honestly, um, science wasn’t my, my strong suit. Um, even though I did really well in college my first year, and I was one of, you know, 10 gals that got into the 80, uh, some class of dental hygienist that summer. So right when I’m saying I want to do social, uh, you know, do something in the social fields, I got into dental hygiene. And so then, you know, that just took me away. Took me down that path. So I was just getting ready to change career paths and, uh, got in and went, went for it. So I was a, you know, I’m a sophomore year. I started dental hygiene school at Ohio state. So that it’s a four-year program there. So you, you know, most of my, um, my, uh, colleagues in dental, in dental hygiene school were already juniors in college when they started. So I was a sophomore and, uh, you know, it was fun.

Shawn Zajas 4:43

So you become a hygienist and there you are, you’re working for a practice. Like what was your journey in dentistry? Like, did like, is that something that you did for like a decade or two and you were just kind of happy with it? Like, what was that journey like?

Anne Duffy 4:58

Oh my gosh. Okay. So I met my husband, Tom, um, my, the summer before my last year at Ohio state and his, he was a year ahead of me. We fell in love. I walked in a bar. He stood up. That’s it. Next thing I know, you know, we were, um, you know, planning a future together. So I started, well, so when I graduated hygiene, oh, this is, you, I was, this is so fun, Shawn. I love this because I was looking at your, your prompts for this, this, um, interview. Um, I’ll never forget when I finished on hygiene school, instead of finishing my student teaching, which was so easy, I decided to go to Europe for nine weeks with my girlfriends and we backpacked and all that kind of stuff. While I was there, I found out that I flunked my boards. I flunked my national boards. And I was like, I was so devastated. I’m like, oh my gosh, I, I couldn’t believe it. So, and I think there were two, two gals in our class that flunked out of 80 that flunked the national boards. And I never told anybody. I told Tom, I told my mom and dad, I was so embarrassed when I had to go come back from Europe, take the board. I had to walk in front of all the dental, the dental students were taking their boards at the same time.

Anne Duffy 6:11

And I dated a lot of them. So I was just like, I was so mortified. It was like, oh, the walk of shame, the walk of shame. And that is a pinnacle part because you were saying something like, what are the lows of your career? That was a low, but I look back on it and it never occurred to me not to take the board again. You know, well, I flunked, but okay, I’ll take it again. And I took it and I passed. And from that moment, Shawn, Tom and I, well, Tom and I got married, you know, maybe a year later, we’d known each other two years, got married, worked a year in dental hygiene. I had a great start to my career. I worked for a periodontist. He taught me everything. Then I ended up going to another dental practice. There were four dentists. I was the only hygienist. And I remember my operator was in the basement. And that was when I lived in Dayton, Ohio. Delco had just put in a dental plan. So all the patients I saw had never had their teeth cleaned before. They were all smoking a couple packs of cigarettes. I’m the only hygienist. I remember having one set of instruments. I mean, I don’t know. It was crazy. But I learned from the periodontist how to, how to, uh, the craft of my, my profession. And I learned my speed from working with these four docs. Right. And so, um, and that just started our, started our marriage, our career in hygiene. And from there, we moved 10 times before we got to Charlotte, North Carolina. So I took seven more state boards because back in the day,

Anne Duffy 7:41

Shawn, you had no reciprocity. So every time we moved, I would have to face taking another board, two day test, one day clinical, one day written in seven other states. So, I mean, I literally, so I, I look, the thing is about that. I look back, I think, gosh, I had a lot of grit because I not only got to get the kids settled and all that. I still, I just studied for another board that, I mean, I didn’t have a lot of confidence and I was just going to breeze through it. Right. And so we landed in Charlotte. So I always worked. One, two, no more than two days a week after we had kids. And, and then maybe sometimes it was a three hours a week or on a Saturday morning, depending on where we were living and what I was doing and what baby was just born. We have, you know, and landed in Charlotte 31 years ago. So it was the last day board. I had to take it Chapel Hill two days. I got my, I had to find my patient and get my blah, blah, blah, past that. And I’ve been working ever since. I literally just retired after 46 years of dental hygiene. I was in the trenches 46 years. I loved my career and I still do. I miss being in the operatory. So I always had my hand in it, so to speak. And yeah, I’ve got seven state boards and I worked since the day I graduated dental hygiene. Yeah.

Shawn Zajas 9:03

You know, it seems like you probably could have come up with a course on how to pass your dental state boards.

Anne Duffy 9:08

Yeah. Katrina M. Sanders and I have a lot in common. She runs the course. I, you know, I could probably, I don’t know what it is. I, you know, I think back on it. It’s like just, I knew pretty much, but I’ve also, one of the other pinnacle parts of my career was when we moved to, it was our third move to Jacksonville, Florida. And I remember going to, you know, like a seminar that I had read up about in the town. I wasn’t working. I don’t think I had taken the board yet. And I met a periodontist that was renowned in Jacksonville, Florida. And he was the father of periodontology in Jacksonville and in the Southeast. And so they saw something in me. They hired me on the spot. And that was an office with four periodontists and probably, I want to say 15 hygienists. And they would not let you actually have your own patient load until you assisted for six months. So that’s the other thing that I think gave me the confidence. I mean, I think I’m an excellent hygienist and I felt like I always did a great job, but I learned on the street, if you will. You know, when you think you’re going to learn everything in school, that is, you know, obviously we know that we have to be lifelong learners. And so, you know, I think taking the board, but I was confident in my skills and I knew that, you know, it was like riding a bike every time I, you know, take off a little bit of time, have a baby and go back.

Anne Duffy 10:33

You know, it was, again, clinically it’s been a fabulous career. And that was two years ago. I came back after COVID. I didn’t want that to end my career. So I came back and, you know, I still go to the same dentist here in Charlotte, North Carolina. He’s an excellent clinician. You know, we come together. He’s like a brother to me. And I, you know, I’m always been an Erin Brockovich. I’ve always been somebody that has fought for the young, the young people go, if I go in for a raise, I’m going to go to get a raise for everybody. And I’m going to demand, you know, oh gosh, I was, I’ve just pretty much fight for the little guy. And that hasn’t changed.

Shawn Zajas 11:18

Well, so I can tell you absolutely love dentistry and you’ve loved being a hygienist. Now I know dentistry is difficult and I’ve heard from certain hygienists that, you know, just the physical toll. I think it would just be refreshing even for you just to tell me so our listeners can hear like, what was it about hygiene that, that you, I don’t know, that you love? Like, because I think it’s just sometimes even in expressing the gratitude of this is what I loved about the profession that can, that, that message can just be so refreshing.

Anne Duffy 11:48

You know, I, I’ve thought about this a lot lately because I do miss it. The, it’s such a great profession. Well, first of all, I love people. So, you know, I’ve done strength finders. My number one is woo, which is winning others over. So a new person comes in every day. I can’t wait to see that new person to find out where they are, where they work, what they do, how they got there, asking interview questions, right? I loved that part about it because you, in dentistry and especially in hygiene, because we have time to speak to our patients and have a conversation, all different career paths, all different backgrounds. You’ve learned so much about the world through dental hygiene. A lot of people don’t realize that because if you’re a nurse in a, in a dental office, in a, in a doctor’s office, for instance, you’re going to take blood pressure. You can do a few things. You’re going to get out of the room and go to something else. We are with that patient for an hour. We know the patients and then we know their kids. And then, I mean, you know, this office, I was, I think, 27 years at in particular. And so then I saw the kids, kids and, you know, their parents and all my neighbors. I mean, it was, it’s a very social, social thing. And I love clinical. I think because I felt very confident in my clinical skills from the experience that I had working.

Anne Duffy 13:00

And I had like that, the first and the third practice I was in, the docs poured into me clinically. So we would always have a conversation. And I, you know, if you’re listening and you’re a doctor, when you get a hygienist, a new hygienist, pour into them, teach them. That’s how I learned to love the profession. It wasn’t necessarily on my own as much it was from what I learned, you know, in the process of, you know, the front to the back and all of that. But it’s just the people. I love the people. I love working on a team. I love going to the office. I hated when the alarm went off. When I did retire, I was glad it didn’t go off at six o’clock anymore. On Tuesday mornings, I worked five hours a week, the last two years of my career. But, you know, just once I got to the office, I was lucky to work with some just super great women. And the doc, you know, he’s a man. And he was great. Yeah. So all of that. And the hours are good. And then, you know, the thing about hygiene, which is different than when you start your own business, you really don’t think of it after you clock out, if you will. You know, it’s you go in, you do your job and you come home. Other than like, you know, continuing ed and things like that. But that’s the easiest part of my career is clinical hygiene. I will say that. Hands down. Hands down.

Shawn Zajas 14:28

You had a chance because of moving really to, I don’t know, change, choose not to keep doubling down on hygiene. And yet you did. Like you kept choosing it as a profession every single time. Like once again, I’m going to take the boards, pass them, and then enter into a practice not knowing what that culture is going to be like, what that leadership is going to be like. If there’s a fit. Were there ever some practices that, that during a move you, you realize like, oh, this isn’t a fit. And I just need to find a different practice. Like, did you ever move within that town or city simply because things weren’t a fit?

Anne Duffy 15:10

You know, that’s funny you ask that. No, except when I came to Charlotte, because the job I first started with here in Charlotte, and I was only there about six months. It was a Monday, Tuesday. So I’m very fortunate. You know, I didn’t have to work full time. So that’s one of the reasons why my body held up and, um, and why I love the profession because I have friends that have done it, you know, four or five days a week and they’re exhausted. No, I, I, I had the break. So I worked Monday, Tuesday, didn’t work with the kids because when you have three kids and my, and my husband was traveling everywhere. Um, so you, I, I like Tuesday, Thursday. I’m just saying, if you’re listening to this, you’re going to have kids. It’s a great profession for that because you can actually make a good salary and you can have your time Tuesday, Thursday, because if the kids are, if somebody’s sick on Monday, we can get them to school on Tuesday and then you can be home with them on Wednesday so they can really get better. And then you can get, get them back to school on Thursday. And it just really worked for our family. And so that’s the only reason I ever changed. I think I looked for different reasons to work and to find a job, Shawn. I liked convenience. I wanted to have it very close to home. I wanted a nice office. I mean, I always worked for a great dentist.

Anne Duffy 16:23

I didn’t always work for dentists that poured into me. So that was kind of a missing in my, even my last, you know, my last job of 27 years. That’s why I stepped out of the operatory when I needed to. And there’s a reason behind that as well. And just poured into myself. So I didn’t expect to have, you know, there’s so many great, you know, doctors that take their teams to like all the different CEs and they go to the Hinman and the Chicago Midwinter. And they do all these things. No, I never had anybody do that. So I would say if you have career goals, it would have been easier for me to work for somebody that was, you know, maybe on the speaking circuit and really taking care of his team and leading the right way. I think doctors and dentists, they, they still are lacking in the leadership roles and they don’t exactly know what to do. Hence, that’s why I’ve started other, you know, past in my career, just to address those issues that I found. needed some help. So, um, you know, uh, I think that’s, I hope that answers your question there, but I, I really liked convenience so that I could get there and back and get the kids and, and, um, you know, have a nice atmosphere to work in and having great, great patients. So I was lucky in that regard too.

Shawn Zajas 17:43

So, and you just said, that’s why you, um, kind of took different directions in your career to help meet those needs. Did you always know that there would be something more for you, um, in the industry of dentistry? And then like, did you also know early on that you, you were a leader or you had that, at least that capability to be a leader? Because it seems like you are just naturally flowing in these strengths and these gifts and you inspire and you lead and you’re literally changing dentistry through what you’re doing through Dental Entrepreneur Women. Um, like, was this something that if, I don’t know, 30 years ago, if someone would have said, Hey, this is

Anne Duffy 18:23

what you’re going to be doing and this is the impact you’re going to make, would you have easily believed them or would that have been something that would have surprised you? Oh, so surprised me. I mean, you know, a lot of people have visions for where they’re going, Shawn. So for me, it was just basically saying yes in the opportunity that I saw in front of me. And leadership has been a thing because I’ve been interviewed for quite a few, in fact, Ohio State just did a big interview on me, which was so, so ironic coming full circle, right? I always was a leader. I’m the oldest girl of five kids. There’s that. I was the oldest granddaughter of, you know, my grandparents. So there’s that. I look back and, you know, all through, you know, grade school, I could see that I was kind of a leader in the class. And then in high school, like I was captain of the drill team with 55 members and I always won best captain. And I never sought it out.

Anne Duffy 19:24

But when I look back on it, I think I had skills that, you know, lend itself to being a leader. So fast forward, I’m in Charlotte. I’m working two days. I wasn’t even working at this point. So, and this is where you have to really rely on faith, if you will. Tom came home from work. So we’d been there two years. I hadn’t taken the board yet. I’m having fun. I’m being a corporate wife. He’s got a big job. I’m like, I’m loving playing tennis. I’m having lunch. I’m taking the kids. I’m doing all this stuff. Having so much fun. And he comes home. He says he’s going to quit his corporate job because he didn’t want to move the kids anymore. At that point, our son was, our oldest was in eighth grade. And so I thought that was a great idea. I thought we’d be millionaires right away because he’s so smart and, you know, he’s in the chemical industry. Oh my God, this is going to be so easy. Oh yeah, go do it.

Anne Duffy 20:14

And about maybe, I don’t know. At that point, then I decided to go ahead and get the board. So I got my board. I was working two days a week. No goal for anything. I mean, I didn’t have a goal for this big, long career. I just, I’m one of those people that does one day at a time. And I know I’m very happy where I’m at in the day. And during that, in the day. And so he comes home. We start to suck wind. We were broke. He went through all his venture capitalist money. He went through all of our savings. I mean, it’s not hard to, it’s not easy. It’s very hard to start a chemical business from scratch. And so then I’m like, well, golly, I’ve got to make more money. Or we can’t, we got to take the kids out of, we were at the, we’ve always, the kids have been in Catholic school. Tom and I were basically raised in the Catholic school. So we’re like, oh my God, this is, I’ve got to do something. And that’s when I started my first side gig. So if Dr. Laura Brenner’s listening, you know, side gigs are important. Um, because I didn’t, I couldn’t work four days a week because I, somebody’s got to take the kids to soccer and, and, and they just wouldn’t have suited me. I would have been miserable. So I got my first side gig and then the rest is history. So one side gig led to another, led to another, led to another, and I never sought them out as much as I said, yes. And that’s how I ended up being where I’m at today.

Shawn Zajas 21:40

That is so crazy what you’re saying about, um, not, not necessarily trying to make them happen, but saying yes. Now I think what might be glossed over in that, Anne, is that you have, uh, the presence to recognize, um, and the ability to bet on yourself when that opportunity does come. Because I do believe opportunity knocks as the saying goes quite often, but a lot of people don’t see it as opportunity. Uh, they either see it as, I don’t know, uh, distraction or, or again, they process it through that grid of, I’m not ready yet. Yeah. The time is not right. Um, which means I can’t guarantee I’m not going to look like an idiot or I’m not going to look like a fool or I’m not going to embarrass myself trying something publicly when I’m not qualified. Like every single thing that could happen when it comes to imposter syndrome. So when these opportunities come your way, is this something you’re having to grapple with? Like, oh, wow. Like, can I do it? Are you just so excited for the opportunity that you just rise up to the plate? Like what, what was your inner game during these times?

Anne Duffy 22:54

You know, I don’t even know. I, I remember before I actually took the board in Charlotte, I went and interviewed for a, um, pharmaceutical rep. I thought, well, I don’t want to take another board. I’m done with boards. I’m just going to go take it. And I didn’t get the job. It’s the only job in my whole life. I didn’t get, and I couldn’t believe it. I was like, what? I didn’t get the job. I think cause I went in and I said, well, I only want to travel, you know, one day a week. I, cause now I tell anybody, everybody that’s, that’s interviewing for a job. I said, just go for it. And then you have the opportunity to say, no, thank you. Right. But you go for full gusto. So I went in half, halfway for that. And so that’s when I said, I got to take the board again, because again, the money was there and the time, the, the commitment was there from a time, time commitment standpoint. And, um, and so then when you’re desperate, Shawn, you really say yes, quite easily. So we had been using a product. It was Oxyfresh and to your, you know, you’ve got the toothbrush, which I love. And that’s very, it would have been in line with my Oxyfresh business. But, um, I fell in love with the products in the clinical aspect. I couldn’t believe that nobody knew about Oxyfresh and chlorine dioxide. And that’s a very similar, uh, ingredient as closest to, but it eliminated it, excuse me, the sulfur compounds and, and it eliminated halitosis. I mean, it’s amazing. Nobody knows about this.

Anne Duffy 24:17

So when I needed to earn more money, I said, oh, I’ll just build my Oxyfresh team. It was a network marketing company. I was, you know, I was never going to do Mary Kay or any of that stuff, even though people thought I’d be good at it. I’m like, no, I’m not into it. But when push comes to shove and I got to earn more money and I didn’t have a flexible schedule, I said, I’ll do that. So that’s how I got started. And I was very successful. I didn’t think that I wouldn’t be, but I also worked really hard at it. Like, you know, they don’t, they call it network marketing for a reason. You have to work it. And I was so scared that I was going to be, I was scared I was going to be poor. And, and the riches to rags is hard. You know, we lived a really nice lifestyle and then being broke, I was just scared to death. And it probably still hits me now. God, I don’t want to be in a nursing home. I want a remote control and I don’t care. I like a color TV. Other than that, that’s all I need in a nursing home. So I’m pretty easygoing now going forward for the rest of my life. But it was something that really, really was scary to me at the time. And so I was, I’m sure I was just determined I wasn’t going to give up. And, you know, network marketing is easy for me because I love people and I had meetings and I had, I actually had the biggest team of female dental professionals in the company. So I got that. And then during that time, my side gigs, I think are interesting. I met a guy at a trade show floor schlepping dental entrepreneur going up against dental economics,

Anne Duffy 25:45

which was, you know, David and Goliath. And I thought, you know, I liked him because he was a great guy. And I thought maybe I could get him in Oxyfresh at the time. And lo and behold, he calls me back a couple months later. He says, Hey, would you come on board? We’ve switched gears as dental entrepreneur, the business, business beyond the classroom. And we’re going to go to all the dental schools. And would you sell advertising for us? So again, I go, yes, because I can do that at home. He bought me my first computer. It was in our bedroom. I mean, I look back on that, Shawn, and it was awesome because the computer was in our bedroom. So the kids never had their own computer. I mean, our kids are older, right? So they always were, they were always, you know, in our room doing papers. Tom and I are trying to go to sleep and it’s 11 o’clock at night, but they didn’t have that opportunity to have their own computers and their own iPads or their phones. And we, you know, our kids were lucky to get, we were lucky to parent kids that didn’t have all that stuff. Right. So I did, we were very successful. Why right off the bat, we had, you you know, great sales and that was twice a year. So I got to travel a little bit and then I traveled with the Oxyfresh. So those two things. And then I also started my own fresh breast center because I thought the products were so good. So I bought a Halimeter, I had my own patients. My boss gave me the back office, you know, blah, blah, blah, all of that. So all of that, yeah, led up to what I’m doing today. So Oxyfresh imploded on itself. They didn’t pay anybody anymore. So I had more time to focus on dental entrepreneurs. So I was working two days a week and I

Anne Duffy 27:13

was building dental entrepreneur. Recently, two years ago, we, we rebranded to dental for the future of dentistry. So that I was getting tired about the schools and they don’t go right into their own, you know, practice right away. They’re going to the, the DSO, which is a good thing. And so, you know, I had more time for that. And then with dental entrepreneur woman, I just heard so many things about women not getting the same money, the same job opportunities, the C-suite. I was really tired of hearing the night, the speaking engagements. And if they did, they weren’t getting the same money as a man was getting and they were complaining. And, and one day I just, a good friend of mine in the marketing, in a marketing arena of a big company who I love, she was a dear friend, was crying when I called her on a Thursday and her boss told her, her smile was insincere. And that was it. And I may have mentioned this before to you, but that’s it. I was so mad. I literally just said, that’s it, Sue. I am starting something. I’m starting a magazine to highlight the amazing women in dentistry. They’re so cool. They’re amazing. They’re smart. They’re beautiful. They love caring. They love beauty. They’re amazing. And we need to, we need to start something. And that’s really how I started Dental Entrepreneur on a phone call that afternoon. And I called a Dental Entrepreneur Woman because I already had Dental Entrepreneur. That’s how simple it was. There was no long-term plan. I hung up the phone. So I’m an activator. So, you know, I just, I don’t give it any thought. I mean, I, how hard can it be? I’ve already, I’m already got one magazine. I just do another. But it’s turned into a big movement now. So it’s another magazine. Now it’s like, you know, crazy.

Shawn Zajas 28:50

Well, I love that mindset of, I’ve already, like, I’m already doing one. Why not another? Like, just don’t give it a second thought. I think there’s something so profound about that. Because then there’s also like on the dental side, right? Like if you’re a dentist and you’re more engineering minded, possibly, there’s that whole analysis through paralysis.

Anne Duffy 29:11

Paralysis, analysis through paralysis, I guess.

Shawn Zajas 29:14

Yeah, where you end up getting debilitated because you can’t analyze it enough to get certainty. And that’s why I love looking at entrepreneurs and trying to figure out, almost break them open and see, like, what is their operating system like? And you hear, like, Jeff Bezos is fine saying yes or no to a decision based off of 70% clarity. So he’s fine with 30% not knowing. That’s enough for him to be like, that’s enough. And some people might be like, oh, yeah, I’m kind of wired the same way. It’s like, well, maybe you are. But most people, when they say that, if you dig deeper, they are actually looking for, like, 95% certainty.

Anne Duffy 29:55

And especially dentistry, right? Because dentistry begs for perfection.

Shawn Zajas 30:04

Oh, sorry, Anne. It just paused. And I was like, all right. So what did you say? What did I miss?

Anne Duffy 30:11

Especially in dentistry. So I think, you know, I think if you’re a dentist and you become an entrepreneur, you’re actually an entrepreneur who just happened to be a dentist. Because a dentist, the true dentist, needs to be perfect. I’m sorry. We say progress on perfection. And of course, nothing’s perfect. We know that, right? But that’s a mindset. And I agree with you. Innovation is all about discovery and saying yes and finding answers. This doesn’t work. I mean, you think about all the, I don’t know, all the times that, you know, somebody tried to figure out the light bulb.

Anne Duffy 30:44

It wasn’t the first time that it works. It takes millions of times to get something right. And, you know, it’s just, it’s really the journey. So I think you have to enjoy the journey and, you know, and be positive about, you know, and have, and have a mission there. Right. I mean, you have, it has to be bigger than, to me, it has to be bigger than money. Now, a lot of people, and that might, that’s just me. I mean, a lot of people start their business. They just want to make more money and they can’t do it in the corporate setting.

Anne Duffy 31:12

But I think, especially for women, it, you know, you, you, I, I don’t know how you’re feeling when you’re talking to all your, in all of your interviews, but I think women have a heart for, the heart for business is a little bit different.

Shawn Zajas 31:23

Yeah, no, I love that. I imagine you had a really interesting perspective as well, Anne, because here you are. It sounds like you’re such a supportive wife. You’re believing in your husband. He wants to make the right decision for the family and not keep uprooting. To have some place you guys can call home, lay down deep roots. And you’re thinking, well, he’s amazing. He’s great. He’s just going to be successful on his own. It must have been a really interesting dynamic, A, for you to witness that transition from corporate to entrepreneurial risk, startup risk. And then at the same time, the second you start your side hustles, now both of you are playing in this entrepreneurial startup playground together, getting to, I don’t know, kind of have each other’s back and encourage each other, inspire each other. That must have been some really trying times, but really rewarding. Like, can you remember, like, am I way off or is that kind of true?

Anne Duffy 32:26

You’re right on. Oh, no, I, the trying times, poor Tom. Every six months, I would, I would just say, honey, please go back to corporate. I love, I can’t take it. I didn’t sign up for this. I don’t want to do it anymore. And so he would listen. He’s so sweet. I know we, you know, honestly, there were times in the middle of the night, we would be holding hands and just praying two o’clock in the morning, like, oh my gosh. And God always provided, Shawn. I mean, I could cry. Tom and I could cry at the times when, like, we don’t even know where. We had some, we had dear friends of ours that just called us up out of the blue and said, we’re going to pay for the kids’ tuition this year. And to accept that and to have somebody do that for us, first of all, it’s humbling, especially for Tom, because he was on the corporate rise. He, you know, he was very highly thought of in Monsanto and the other big companies. And we were always getting promoted. So it was always, like, really fun moving. And then just the humility that he has gained through all of these, these ups and downs of entrepreneurs, because if you’re a true entrepreneur, it’s a roller coaster. There are times when, you know, you think you’re going to get a big project or a big contract and, you know, oh gosh, you’re not getting it. BASF is getting it. What? So, but we never gave up. I’m so proud of Tom. I always feel like I’m more of his sidekick because, you know, I,

Anne Duffy 33:54

I never really think of myself as, um, I hate to say, I never think of myself as, as being the first person to have to pay the bills. And that is again, a mindset for women. If you’re listening to me, that’s not how it is anymore. We’re, we’re equal partners, but I never really had that monkey on my back. I always, you know, kind of lend itself to him, but back to people helping us along the way they did. And it was, it was so beautiful because it’s helped us understand how to help people. thought of paying some three kids tuition, which was about $10,000. And this is 25, 30 years ago, uh, to just say, we want to do that for you. Right. And, and that happened every time we were at wits end and had nothing like a $2 to put in my gas tank, which I remember that that was a fun night. Um, and nowhere else to get money. I mean, it was like, you know, and we were living in this beautiful neighborhood. We still live here. It was a joke that maybe we’ll have a trailer on the back of the, you know, nothing against trailers. I mean, but I thought, you know, we’ll rent the house, not leaving this property. Um, but I think faith, just the faith and the fact that we were strong in our faith together. Cause that’s people say, well, how are you guys married so long? And you really love each other. You know, we just celebrated 48 years last week or two weeks ago. Yeah. And I was like, how do you do it? Well, you know, we have faith at the center. God’s always been at the center from day one or first day.

Anne Duffy 35:23

First date. And, um, I could, we could not have done it without that, um, that solid foundation. And then, you know, just we’re doing it. We’re, we’re doing it, but we, and we love what we do. We’re probably, I don’t know if we’re going to retire. I think we’ll retire someday, but you know, I’m going to be 70 in October and Tom’s 71. Yeah. I know. Yeah. That used to be old. It’s not old anymore. Right. You look unbelievable. And well, you know what I think I, everyone’s people will say that, but I think there’s there’s some kind of filter on zoom. I don’t look this good in real life, but there’s some filter on zoom that I think I’ve got going for me. But anyway, I have, I have met you in real life and you are stunning in real life. You are an icon for anti-aging. Yeah. Well, thank you. But I think it’s also, you know, the verb for life and, and the, and, and my faith. And, um, you know, that’s how I start my day every, every day. If I can, we, you know, we started with mass and then, you know, reading, reading first, get up and read the paper, have coffee, go to mass, come home, do a little exercise and, you know, get to it. So it’s, it’s been a lovely, um, we’re, we’re a lovely duo. We’re a lovely duo. Yeah. And it’s, it’s, it’s not hard. It’s not hard.

Shawn Zajas 36:41

Duo. You can’t say duo because I just think of DeW. Oh, I don’t know. Oh, on brand actually. It’s been so much fun. I mean, I never had any idea that DeW would turn into be like, you

Anne Duffy 36:52

like, you know, just do it. We’re going to do it together. Let’s go. You know, I mean, we’ve just had more fun with, with that, um, and divine about it. I mean, again, you know, I just came up with it that after it was four 30 on the phone call at five 30, I came up with DeW, and then the rest is history. You know, it’s like, okay, keep it going.

Shawn Zajas 37:10

Okay. So there’s two places I want to go. Um, I’m trying to remember, I will remember one of them. Uh, but before we go to any of those, I just need to say like you exude, um, like gratitude and grace. Like there’s such a gratitude about the way that you approach life. And then there’s such a grace that just surrounds you. And I just wanted to recognize that. Like, Anne, it’s just a, it’s a beautiful thing when someone is living aligned, uh, fully aligned to who they are and who they’re called to. Be because they just get to effortlessly shine light. And, um, that, that is you. So thank you for being true to yourself. Cause I know that takes so much courage. Um, so yeah, you, you get, you’ve blessed so many people because of that. So like, seriously, thank you.

Anne Duffy 37:58

You know, I, I, I think that’s really sweet, Shawn. I appreciate that. But I think, you know, I did the strength finders. It’s a big deal for me because that’s our base with the, with DeW, you know, we have our retreat. We, we, we, we base it on strength finders. And I took it at our church. So this was 14 years ago. And, and when I took it, it was, oh, this is going to be my God given talents. And when I actually, then I studied it and I, I facilitated all these young and older women and men, you know, throughout the last 14 years at church, but it’s, it’s not a spiritual test. It just happened to be that the guy that founded strength finders in the Gallup, uh, assessment. It happened to be a devout Christian. And so he believes they’re God given talents. So when you find those, so I, I don’t take a lot of credit for this because basically I’m, I’m also have positivity.

Anne Duffy 38:52

How lucky is Tom that he’s an entrepreneur and his wife is very positive. So I can almost turn anything into like, ah, it’ll be okay. Uh, no worries. We’ll be fine. It’s fine. What, you know? And so I, I, I, it’s God given. I listen to God. And, and, um, and I’m very thankful for that because I think that really comes in handy when you’re married to an entrepreneur and an entrepreneur yourself, you can actually not stay down too long. You, you know, you, you can, you could get up, uh, all you need is one good phone call or, you know, and I am grateful. I’m, I’m very grateful. I have everything. And, you know, it’s been a good run. So, you know, if something crazy happens, which it’s going to eventually, I mean, we’ve been through a lot, trust me. I mean, it’s not like this has all been roses and butterflies and all that. It’s, it’s really how we’ve handled it. And I think for anybody, everybody’s got something and some things are, are horrific. Um, but it’s how we handle it. And I, I feel blessed to, um, have gotten through a lot of this stuff, you know, pretty much unscathed, still, still plugging along.

Shawn Zajas 40:05

Okay. So I was thinking like, again, because this, this, um, podcast is really for those that are on the sideline. Uh, I mean, anyone in the game, this is going to encourage them to keep staying in the game. But I was thinking about it the other day. Cause I was talking to a dentist and he’s like, Shawn, and I feel like what you’re saying backs this up. When you’re a dentist or a hygienist, you have an amazing plan B, which is your clinical demand. Demand your clinical skills. If you want to start a side hustle, or if you want to do something else, you have almost that safety net of, I can provide value. Uh, there’s a need for me in the marketplace. So if this little venture doesn’t work, you don’t have that same, um, risk because you can kind of just plug in to an existing structure where you can make money because your skills are very, very valuable. Um, and I think that it’s like the flexibility of hygiene allowed you to really get to express your creative, uh, entrepreneurial, you know, pursuits, especially when those opportunities came. So yeah, I think hygienists, uh, even specifically like have that ability and that that’s really valuable. So I just wanted to kind of point that out.

Anne Duffy 41:24

I totally agree with you. I mean, you know, it’s like, well, one of my patients said this when I was crying to her one day when we were like, like floundering. I’m like, she goes, Anne, don’t worry. You’re never going to be poor. You may be broke, but you’re not going to be poor. And to your point, dental hygiene is a profession and dentistry is a profession. So you can always lean back on that. You can always, yeah, you can revert back. I mean, I could have gotten, I could have done four days or five days a week. I could have done that. I, if push comes to shove, you better believe it. But you know, what, what motivates you more is able to be able to, you know, do your own thing and have your side gigs and have, make the decisions or go back and do four or five days a week. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s great. I probably would have enjoyed that as well. I don’t, again, I hear about bodies, but the hygienists that are doing that now are smart. They’re getting, they’re going to the chiropractor, they’re getting massages. You know, I mean, I, I need to go get a massage. I don’t do that very often. Very often. But there are ways now to get through, you know, the ergonomics. We’ve got, you know, Stephanie Botts and we’ve got Katrina Klein that are, you know, talking about ergonomics and all those things. So, yeah, but it’s a nice safety net to your point, Shawn.

Shawn Zajas 42:39

Okay. So I want to zoom in on the genesis of DeW, that moment. What year is this?

Anne Duffy 42:46

Shawn Zajas 42:47

Okay. So you’re on a phone call and you end up hanging up. The phone call ends and the emotion you feel is anger. You are indignant. You are upset. And I tell this to people. Sometimes all you have to do is follow the pain and the pain will show you what you need to do, where you need to go. It’ll almost be like that plumb line because you’re just like, this is outrageous. I need to do something about it. And I absolutely love that. So that’s why it’s like, even between the lines right now of what we’re talking about, I hope our listeners are like, man, what is it that I feel so overwhelmingly? There’s that fire in my belly that I need to do something about this. And yes, the time is now. It couldn’t be more perfect. I just love that you had that foresight to just be like, look, this is unacceptable. I’m going to do something about it. Why not me? And you just stood up and led and the rest truly is history. DeW is so inspiring. It is so fun. What have you learned? If you could distill maybe one takeaway in this journey of yours over the last 30, 40 years, what was like a mindset you either had to embrace or a mindset you had to shed in order to get to where you’re at?

Anne Duffy 44:11

Oh, let me think about that. I think, you know, if not me, who? If not now, when? And then I’m found by the amazing women that join us. Because so often someone will say, oh, I never heard of you, or I didn’t know this was available, or oh my gosh, it’s so wonderful to have women that you can talk to, that you actually, that we abide by the principles of no scarcity mentality, of we are based on love, right? I mean, and everybody’s welcome to sit at our table. And just thank you. So, I mean, I am fed by that. I’m fed by the women that have joined us. And I love the men. All the guys want to be dudes. They can’t. They’re dudes. You know, we’ve got like 75 now that that’s a man that supports a woman in dentistry. Yes, we, you know, we talk. And so, you know, I do think thinking back though, there’s got to be a reason for you because you have to always give something up. If you say yes to one thing, you’ve got to, you know, make room for, throw a few things out in your life to be able to do this. So that takes passion and it takes, you know, and to your point, you got to get kind of mad at some, sometimes. I mean, with the whole Oxyfresh in the beginning of that is, I couldn’t

Anne Duffy 45:39

believe that people didn’t know that this would help them with their halitosis because they were going to the gastroenterologist. They were going to all these doctors and all they had to do was use chlorine dioxide toothpaste. I mean, their teeth, believe it or not, they had beautiful, healthy gums. And so I just was outraged at that, that they needed to know more about that. So it’s, you have to have a driving force. Again, it’s got to be bigger than you. And, and then now for me, it’s also like, I need to lead the way and being a businesswoman because if DeW isn’t successful, and we called it Dental Entrepreneur Woman because I had Dental Entrepreneur. It had nothing to do with being an entrepreneur. My take on women are that all women are entrepreneurial because all women will, if there’s a pain point, they’re going to find a solution and they spin 10 plates and they can do it and they can be wearing heels and they’d be dancing backwards, but they’re spinning and they’re not dropping it. That is a dental, that is an entrepreneur. I think women love that and they do that very well. So again, you know, it’s, it’s just, but you got to have something that’s going to, you can’t quit because, you know, Shawn is your entrepreneur with this podcast and this interview, the, the, the thing that you’re doing right now, which is so cool. You can’t quit and you have to see it through and keep going and one foot in front of it. And then you need your community because, you know, when you’re having a struggling and you’re having a tough day, the last person I want to go to, well, not the last person,

Anne Duffy 47:08

because I do share all that stuff with Tom, but he doesn’t really listen to me like a, like a do is going to listen to me, the woman in the trenches. So that’s why I say call, call, call a DeW, call somebody. They’ll listen to you from the beginning to the end. And if the sports, you know, if a basketball game comes on there, there’s, you know, that doesn’t sway them. They’re going to listen to everything you’re saying. And so I think that’s when it comes to community. Then we need our community, people that are kind of in the same trenches that we’re in and the same mindset in, you know, family, um, you know, the, the circle, family, life, balance, all of those things. And, and, and I think women get each other. I think that’s really something that I found. And honestly, I’m not a sorority girl. I never joined a sorority at Ohio state. I mean, they were fine. I liked them. And all my roommates were in sororities. I just, I just didn’t have the opportunity to, to do that. But, um, hence I don’t, there’s no, you don’t have to sign a release form to join too. You like, again, if you want to be part of our community, yeah, just come in and don’t have scarcity mentality. You know, no judging. Be nice.

Shawn Zajas 48:17

Which leads me to, if you are listening and you want to be part of DeW, where do you want people to go?

Anne Duffy 48:22

Well, they can find out about DeW by just going to the website. I mean, it’s D E W dot life. L I F E. We tried to get do.com and and Mountain Dew have that. And it was so expensive to buy from them. So yeah, DeW.life and they can find out anything they want there. And then, you know, I love my, my gig is, I love jumping on the, on a call with somebody, just like what we’re doing here and find out, you know, a little bit about them and where they’re going, where they want to go. And who do I know that might be able to help them on that path? Because, um, I’ve had a lot of people that have helped me. And, um, you know, that’s, that’s another, I think, sweet spot in my, my heart is to, you know, help, you know, um, help young women and also women in their fifties and sixties. And, and, and all of us that are, you know, on the other side, you know, it’s, it takes all of us, you know, we hold, you know, give a hand down and push up and, um, mentoring and menteeing. They go hand in hand. I don’t care what your age is. I’ve been mentored by so many young, amazing women and men in the profession that age has no bearing on, on that. What side you’re on.

Shawn Zajas 49:30

Amen. Okay. So, Anne, last question, uh, as we are running out of time, I could interview you all day. Uh, so here you are, you’re walking down the street and off in the distance, you see 17 year old Anne and you know, you have one moment to communicate a brief sentiment. What do you share?

Anne Duffy 49:48

Uh, oh, I would say to myself, keep leading with love. Just keep leading with love. And it all falls into place.

Anne Duffy 49:59

And, and amen on that, but also find out your strengths, find out what you’re good at. And then build on that because then you’re on rocket fuel. Then you, you really will have a life of, of, um, of happiness, I think, and fulfillment because at the end of the day, we all are looking to be fulfilled in what we’ve accomplished and, and, um, where we’re going. And I think, you know, I hope I, I hope I have

Shawn Zajas 50:28

that sentiment at the very last breath I take. Well, and it has been nothing short of a pleasure. Like it’s easy to honor you as an innovator, as someone that is literally pioneering positive change in dentistry. I love the light that only you can shine. And I love just that impact that you’re making know that I’m 100% in your corner. And I just want to say, thank you so much for letting me interview you

Anne Duffy 50:53

today. Oh, Shawn. Thank you. It was an honor to be your guest today. And I wish you nothing but the best. I know you’re making a big difference in our industry and beyond. So thank you, Shawn.

Shawn Zajas 51:05

Thank you, Anne. Thanks for listening and be sure to follow so you never miss an episode. To learn more about what’s going on in dentistry, check out innovationindentistry.com.